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2012
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November
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- 2nd Supplemental draft
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- Supplemental Draft
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November
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22 comments:
P4-Wingos...Ticket-Mr.B...Invaders-Eteam...Swat-Caps
Invaders are willing to withdraw the 7 man proposal if everyone would rather pick between the German plan of 6 an alternate and Eric's to deal w/DNPs-whichever of these 3 ideas has the most support we should get this down to only 2 competing proposals if we want to have a binding vote-trying to vote on 3 will split support and we'll have no definitive solution
Ticket
E-Team's idea I support. The alternate opens a pandora's box to manipulations that may entice contestants to use an iffy guy at a position where he's thin in order to get use from an "alternate" position where he's deep. In that case why have positions at all?
My one day career as a Breakaway bike messenger is over. Besides my contact lenses killing me, my phone is not up to snuff and I'm reluctant to commit to a plan of a year or two for an item that can die in poor weather. Also I need to build stamina for brutal winter conditions since no shows aren't allowed.
This 53 year old boomerang child gets "Brow" beaten by his mother for not applying himself (to compuer lessons she'll buy for me).
Ticket removes "Brow"
Noah,Milsap,Smith,Curry,DeRozan,Paul
Good metaphors Invaders. The one about the young you taking stats to be a part of the game is what we should keep in the spirit of this fantasy league. The DNP solution is a conundrum that unfortunately does not lend itself to an activity free of suspicion. E-Team succeeds in the fair department, albeit in a manner that may never come into play in terms of changing an outcome from 0 added to a score.
The Wingos are digging the nostalgia for our lost youth and statfreakiness. I miss the pre-Internet days of carefully copying stats into charts and tables, making graphs, and other acts of otherworldly nerdiness. I own many colored pencils and sharpies too.
In these dystopian 21st Century Schizoid days, the Wingos select a new lineup for Match 5:
1-DWill
2-GeoHill
3-AK47
4-Whoreford
5-D(NP)Cousins
U-D(anilo)G
The Wingos, in their favored third person persona, look forward to the supplemental draft. Virtually see you there!
E Team says:
I know I'm in the company of some pretty supersized stat geeks, but I'll take a back seat to no one. As an adolescent, I invented a baseball game using a deck of cards that produced realistic outcomes and played an entire 162-game schedule, plugging in my 1972 White Sox (for whom my boyhood idol, Dick Allen may have come closer to winning a Triple Crown than anyone between Yaz and Miguel Cabrera).
Nobody remembers Jorge Orta (the black Mexican), Ed Hermann or the former Portland Beaver Eddie Leon better than I do.
But hey, we need to ignore the dorkier angels of our nature for a second and be honest about what represents the fairest response to the issue at hand.
Again, the idea is to mitigate DNP damage. Trying to erase all traces of it feels like declaring bankruptcy and not having to repay any of your creditors. That's Romneyball. I'm not down.
E Team says:
Speaking of the DNP...
DHow, Monta, Pierce, Duncan, Deng, Kemba
When Invaders were in 4th and 5th grade a friend(now a big time SF CPA)and I invented a dice game that when used w/weighted stats derived from the previous season and the player's career could replicate a reasonably accurate season in progress for the established starters-for rookies it didn't work so we had to plug in some spring training numbers culled from our Sporting News subscriptions-our creation also was off for the reserves we had some 2nd string guys hitting at record clips-My friend played an American league season and I played a National league season-the Yankees and Giants played in our World series.I'm older than most of you so these were the '65 and '66 seasons-I remember every player Eric mentions-Orta was from from Veracruz as I recall and was a great hitter-Hermann was mostly a backup catcher for the Sox to Josephson as I remember and Leon was a good field no hit utility guy
Invaders will go w/BLopez/Aldridge/Johnson/Westbrook/MoWill/Pau....it occurs to me that the reason we invented that baseball game was because we could only watch 9 Giant road games on tv in those days(all vs. the hated Dodgers)and the national game of the week on NBC which always had the Yankees or the Cardinals it seemed-with every game on tv/internet up to the minute stats and the fantasy universe no kid would do that today-I remember in '64 when I was 9 I listened to 32 innings of basball on the radio-The Giants and Mets played a DH the first game went 9 innings the second went 23 lasting 7 hours and 23 minutes(a record at the time)young 2nd year pitcher Gaylord Perry came out of the bullpen to pitch 10 scoreless inning for the win-in the top of the 23rd a pinch hit double by backup catcher Del Crandall won it 8-6-I remember it like it was yesterday!!
E Team says:
Hermann split time behind the dish with a young Brian Downing, who later muscled up and became a big slugger with the Angels, if memory serves. They caught the durable, mostly three-man rotation of Wilbur Wood, Stan Bahnsen and a young hard-throwing righthander named Tom Bradley. Some may recall that Wood once started both games of a doubleheader that year.
Trivia: Who were the more famous brothers of that team's outfielders Carlos May and Pat Kelly? (The other starter was Walt "No Neck" Williams, although I believe both Jay Johnstone and Rick Reichardt were on the team.)
More trivia: The bullpen included two promising youngsters who later achieved considerable fame, Terry Forster and a guy who still went by Rich Gossage.
Ah, my '72 Chisox. I put every box score and game story in a scrapbook that season as they finished five games behind the hated A's. Oh, to have seen my Dick Allen in the Series that year.
Invaders know the answer-Leroy Kelly who took over for Jim Brown at Cleveland was Pat Kelly's brother-Carlos' brother was Lee May a big slugging 1b for the Reds who was traded to Houston for a guy named Joe Morgan-Lee was a better hitter than Carlos who blew his thumb or finger off in an accident I recall but still could hit but w/less power than his brother-I think Duane Joesphson was before Downing and Hermann served as a back up to both-in the old days they always carried 3 catchers they didn't have bullpen coaches warming up the pitchers-Downing actually led off for a few years as DH for the Angels and looked quite the the part of a steroid user-Bahnsen started w/the Yankees in the late 60's and later played for my A's after the Sox-Wood started w/the Pirates when I was a kid in the early 60's and then w/the Sox pitched both ends of a DH as a fan draw once-didn't he win and lose 20 that 3 man rotation season? these were the Bill Veeck owned Sox the master showman who put showers in the bleachers at old Commiskey park for fans on humid Chicago summer days and would do anything to make a buck-Eric I loved those '72 A's-that was my senior year and I had my first drinks in an Oakland bar the night they won it
B's take:
Lin, Wade, Gay, Griff, Lee & D.West
Wingos reveal that they listened to almost every Whitesock gane on the radio in 1972, graduating H.S. and working downtown like the little big man he thought he was (that's a great movie!). Does anyone remember the second knuckleballer on the team - one Eddie Fisher. Hard to believe he had married Liz Taylor...
Invaders know Wingo is kidding and realize it was Eddie Fisher the late 50's early 60's singer Liz married but she left him for Richard Burton while filming the epic Cleopatra which I saw w/my mom as child in a theater when I was 7-glad to know someone is as old as I am Hawthorne-Fisher the pitcher also was on the Orioles for a while as I remember before the Sox-I believe he perfected the knuckle ball in Baltimore while in the bullpen w/the great Hoyt Wilhelm in the early 60's-Wilhelm also pitched for the Sox in the mid 60's-he's the answer to the trivia question name the player who hit a homer his first at bat and play the longest(almost 20 years I think)while never hitting another one
Invaders went over rosters Eric provided in preparation for supplemental and found 2 errors on positions- my Mo Williams is a 1/2 not just a 1 and Marion is a 3/4 not a 4/5 as listed all others appear to be correct
Nitecaps vs. Swats
(1) B. Jennings
(2) Kobe
(3) Carmelo
(4) Z. Randolph
(5) G. Davis
(6) G. Dragic
On the issue of DNP's
2 choices
10% of total score (vote 10%)
or
7 man starting lineup (vote 7)
I cast my vote for 7.
according to my count the is
2 votes 10% (Tom, E)
1 vote 7 (Dave)
Ryan, Chris, P4, Sean and Mark to weigh in.
Wow! After all the fun talk and really complex, compelling ideas thrown out, we end up with a Hobson's choice between the two least-satisfactory and least-interesting options. Just to stir the pot, does the decision require a simple majority of votes cast, or a majority of league members? This affects whether I vote by abstaining (a vote for no change), which I will do if it has a meaningful impact (if a true majority - 5 votes is needed for any change). To the extent it is relevant, I think that 5 votes (or more) should be required to change anything in this time-honored league. So sayeth the Wingos.
Invaders vote 7-so we'd rather have my 7 the 2nd choice rather than the 6+alternate?-as far as 5 votes needed I'm not sure if it should work that way if you were to abstain Hawthorne but certainly it should take 4 regardless of abstentions-if no proposal can get at least 4 then we'd change nothing-if there are more abstentions then we'd try the other proposal?this is new ground for me so I'm not sure how we should proceed-good question Wingos-I need the council of 5 veterans to advise me on this matter(Dave/Sean/Eric/Tom/Germans)
Nice to see Wingo embracing the role of "Dick".
I'm with Mark, vote for one or the other. Then we can have that one face off against no change at all.
Currently 2-2
The second alternative leads to too many other issues. Like getting the score of a PF for an injured SG.
Hawthorne "Dick" Wingo is fine with picking one if it then is put to a vote against the status quo. In that scenario HDW picks tithing, the 10% solution.
E Team says:
Without looking it up, I don't believe either Duane Josephson or Eddie Fisher were with the '72 Chisox. I do believe there was a third catcher, but I'm not coming up with him. They had a guy named Luis Alvarado, but I think he was a middle infielder.
Dave, regarding the DNP issue, what is the "second alternative" you refer to above? It seems to me that the four propositions before us are the following:
The Seven-Man Lineup, which to me A) is too extreme a change, B) creates more work for everyone, and, most importantly, C) does not even address the issue at hand, which is teams getting killed by DNPs. That would continue to happen.
The Six-Plus-One, which I consider antithetical to what we do, essentially giving teams free reign to put girly prima donnas and antisocial head cases on the floor without any consequence if they should decide they don't feel like playing or go all South Side on someone.
Look at the our most recent DNP. Wingo loses his Cousins because the guy threatens a broadcaster or some dumbass thing. Uh, hey... it's DeMarcus Cousins. Good player. Nut job.
And remember, this whole thing started when Mr. B got all out of sorts because, in the process of getting blown out of a match, his Dwyane Wade didn't play. Gee, what a surprise, Wade missing a game. Did I tell you guys he misses 14 games a season?
I maintain that such considerations are part of what we do. You want to take guys with known downside risk? Fine. But don't get all sideways when they cost you matches.
There's the 10% Solution, which I consider an upgrade over the previous Lowest Man Standing option because it's a better measure of your squad's overall performance in a given match. To me, this is the only measure that offers actual DNP MITIGATION, which I think should be our only goal, and does not threaten unanticipated complications down the road.
And, of course, we have the choice to leave things the way they are. It may not be perfect - or maybe it is - but it's been the default setting for a long time. I think it's fair to remind people that this entire discussion began when Mr. B waved the proverbial bloody shirt in front of the X-Man, who has an almost pathological need to do things differently today than he was doing them yesterday. Dave talks about speaking truth to injustice, but we also know he's probably the least cautious of all of us, a riverboat gambler who's never been much of a status quo guy, to say the least. Hey, we all love the guy for it, but him lobbying for safeguards against DNPs when he's drafting players like Carmelo Anthony and Zach Randolph is kind of like ordering the lobster and champagne after your teetotaling vegan dinner partners have agreed to split the check evenly.
I don't know how we would handpick two of the above four options. I say we vote on the four like a primary, then vote on whichever two finish highest. I would assume we need five votes to effect a change. And then there's the question of when to implement should we approve anything, but I suppose we'll get to that when we get to it.
That's my two cents.
E Team says:
By the way, I vote for the 10% Solution.
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