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2012
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December
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- Enter Match 18 scores
- Fourth Supplemental Draft with Rosters & Subsequen...
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December
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21 comments:
P4-Nitecaps...Ticket-ETeam...Invaders-Belvederes...Wingos-Swat
Eric-Invaders assumed the next vote would be between 2nd chance scoring and either the German 6/alternate divided by? or your 10 % ideas-based on comments already posted I counted 4 supporters of my proposal Tom would've been 5 therefore I speculated we'd tie w/out Tom- as far as the Harden situation sure P4 would send him out anyway but why not Harden produced those numbers himself and if he were a "game time decision" wouldn't you take a chance he'd play?what you left out in your analysis is Harden scored 57 in a game in which he was injured "and returned"after a performance like that I'd have played him thinking he'd play in that next game so he was a good bet to play any way unlike Tyreke who I would never have risked playing since he'd missed the prior 2 games
Wingos mix it up for SWAT:
1-DWill
2-KayT
3-AK47
4-Whoreford
5-Run/DMC
U-GeoHill
...and Hollinger goes to the Grizzlies!
Ticket
Noah a better last pick on draft day?
Ay Mon...roe your kayak
The (Mil) Sapper
Just Josh-in Smith
Curry
Paulie
See match 12 scores for my proposal to give previous opponent a conditional win over me.
Ticket says
Oops. I mistook Evans for Harden in my agreement that hindsight should not be permitted as E-Team snickered at that proposal.
Invaders also would like to say that in response to Eric last Saturday's 57 by Harden didn't really matter for match 12 because he did play last night and got 41 which Eric didn't mention-the point is the Germans were not negligent playing a game time decision guy based on the fact that he turned his ankle Saturday but returned to action and had a big game-I assume Eric didn't know this rather than just not including this information-so to me the Germans would've been deserving of those 57 points if they were needed because these were actual stats earned by the same player that have never been counted- we have all these unused real stats since we play only 40 matches it seems to me the second chance idea when utilizing these neglected stats is better than any type of formula that's prime purpose seems to be to insure a team owner can't possibly get many points from a DNP-I say let real stats be the guide to the appropriate remedy-the fact that you can only look one game forward then only one game back provides some assurances that benign neglect of one's team isn't unduly rewarded but if the DNP actually earned those points I don't see why he should earn only a fraction of them-and is rewarding the B's w/a 26 for Tyreke such a horrible thing?he's one of the members who's been adamant about the need for some DNP relief
As for Tom's latest rum and coke induced commentary I agree that I strongly prefer looking forward only one match for a DNP score-I've only modified it to include one prior match to address those members who believe schedule variations shouldn't determine whether there's DNP relief-if there's support for allowing the DNP score to extend into the next match period I could support that but it prevents timely scoring and you'd be double counting some stats sometimes-I believe Dave is interested in this approach as well
E Team says:
Let's see if I can illustrate, for the last time, why some people feel DNP victims are not entitled to waltz out of jail free every time one of their guys doesn't show up for work.
Let's take Wingo's DeMarcus Cousins, who has emerged as one of the most productive fantasy big men in the NBA.
He stings the Wingo (foreshadowing?) with a DNP earlier this season. Why? Because he got suspended for trying to pick a fight with a radio announcer at courtside.
Why did he do that? Because he's a gigantic dipshit and/or mental case. And guess what? Lost amid other DNP-related discussion this match period is the fact that Wingo barely dodged another DMC DNP after the guy drew another suspension, this time for punching somebody in the balls in his last game.
Okay. Let's suppose that, instead of Cousins turning O.J. Mayo’s scrotum into his personal speed bag on Monday night, he had gone sac-smacking in his previous game, against Portland on Saturday. Maybe the league doesn’t levy the punishment until late Sunday or early Monday and Wingo doesn’t catch wind of it.
Now the junk jabber goes DNP on Monday night and guess what? We’re going to reward Wingo with some fully-automated DNP relief plan points because the NBA's biggest nutjob (no pun intended) gets slapped with his second suspension of the first quarter of the season for getting all intimate with the man parts of his opponents. (Maybe he’s been reading too many Stephen Jackson tweets.)
How do you feel if you're Wingo’s opponent and you lose a close match as a direct result of this wingnut welfare? And if you don’t feel like relief is deserved here, who gets to decide when it is?
You’re right, Dave. It is supposed to be 6 on 6 competing. But it wasn’t Wingo’s opponent in this hypothetical that didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. You want to go with DeMarcus Cousins, you go all the way with DeMarcus Cousins.
And the same goes for guys that are injury prone (Wade, Curry, Tyreke, etc.), have criminal dispositions (ZBo, Melo, Blatche, Tinsley, etc.), are prima donnas (KevMart, Camby, etc.), whatever.
You're saying you should get to enjoy their output when they’re productive, but skate when they do that other stuff they’re equally well-known for doing.
Some don't agree.
Look, are there legitimate, no-way-to-see-it-coming, this-never-happens-to-this-guy DNPs? Yes. And they suck. But what if they represent a relatively small portion of overall DNPs, and most of the others don't really warrant relief?
Now we're offering help where it isn't deserved more often than we're rightly addressing a legitimate problem. At some point - and I bet we won't have to wait very long - that's gonna mean actual lost matches for teams whose only crime was having all six of their guys show up.
I do not want to have to sort that out. Nor should anybody else. The only point I've been making all along is that we shouldn't solve a problem by creating a bigger one.
Honestly, I think the simplest, fairest, least invasive, best possible answer to the DNP problem is the 10% Solution, but I honestly can't see why Ticket should have lost the last match to Mr. B, which he would've under that and every other relief plan. I don't think he deserved to lose that match. Period.
And to me, that leaves us right back where we started.
Peace on earth, wise men.
E Team says:
Here you go, Rodeo Boy.
DHow, KLove, Monta, Rondo, Pierce, Duncan
That Deng for Pierce thing cost me $5 last match. Let's see if I can get it right this time.
I'm ready to vote. When we are doing it?
B's:
Evans
Wade
Gay
Griff
Lee
West
How does the prize money work? $5 high score for each match..? Leaving how much for the 1,2..3rd place?
Wow! The Wingos totally agree with the characterization of the DeMarcus situation. When they picked him in the draft his position was based in part on this variable, he would have gone sooner if he was less of a fuckhead.
I think all the debate, apart from being a fun waste of time, shows us that there is no perfect solution. Given that we have one kind of imperfect already in place, and no one can agree on what would be a global improvement, the Hawthorne Wingos hereby cast their vote for no change. When all choices are imperfect, stay the course. Otherwise, it is just like switching lines at the bank, all sound and fury and signifying nothing (the Biblical, Faulknerian Bank that we all know and love).
Swat for Match 13 goes:
Parker, Ginobili, Lebron, AlJeff, McGashole, Varejao
Invaders completely understand why some would loathe a guy like Cousins being bailed out of his myriad of suspensions but this guy is a complete anomaly in the NBA universe-a guy that makes Rasheed's whole career look like innocent rhetoric-I don't think he's a proper example to use when analyzing this-the vast majority of DNPs are injuries that are generally under publicized-the NBA season is long and guys play w/nagging injuries(ankles/plantar fascitis/elbows/groin pulls/back spasms/etc...) all year and take time off to navigate their way through 82 games and preserve their health for the playoffs-this is done by design to manage their pains through the meat grinder NBA circus-the oft cited example of Wade is exactly what I'm talking about-the guy is fortunate to still be playing the way he's tortured his body through all out effort for the Heat-this isn't a weenie as Eric suggested but a courageous NBA warrior-the real problem here is the dynamic of trying to fit our fantasy 40 matches into the reality of the NBA's 82 games-since we can't know exactly how a guy is feeling a DNP can come up anytime and it's like flipping a coin whether your guy playing hurt(they all do)will be given a game off that's the first game of a match period-and then we come full circle to my point which has always been to maintain only real stats-our game is not representative of an entire NBA experience because half the games are not scored-therefore DNP relief is a valid expectation-shaping a fantasy experience through the prism of 40 games isn't a realistic amount games to deal with the realities of the NBA experience namely nagging injuries resulting in DNPs
playing hurt Warriors Invader will play LaMarcus/Thaddeus/Parsons/Westbrook/Mo and JoeJohn
vs. P4
(1) B. Jennings
(2) Kobe
(3) E. Turner
(4) Z. Randolph
(5) G. Davis
(6) G. Dragic
P4:
1 - Irving
2 - Harden
3 - Durant
4 - Bosh
5 - Ibaka
6 - George
E Team says:
Mark, I guess I can understand you wanting to keep the whole fantasy thing based on one guy's actual output, it's natural. (By the way, the current system does that.) But I think the only remotely fair proposals for change on the table are the ones that involve discounted scores.
Trying to emulate the actual NBA in what we do? Why? We're a bunch of middle-aged dorks betting a few bucks on our supposed knowledge of basketball. We put six guys on the court instead of five, we don't have divisions, we don't let many teams in the playoffs, etc., etc. We are not the NBA.
And you say the "vast majority" of DNPs are impossible to foresee. I'm just not going to bother addressing that. It's not true. Our experience this season proves otherwise. Go back and look.
Yet you and Dave are not only fully ready to absolve team owners of any responsibility whatsoever for drafting injury-prone players or head cases, you now seem to be denying their very existence.
I can't get on board with that. I think steering clear of players who have the potential to hurt you is an essential part of this league.
If I had to choose from among the recent proposals, I would vote for the 10% Solution, but after seeing how it would have worked out in the Ticket-B match, I can't do it.
The goal was to try to make teams competitive even with a DNP. Guess what? Mr. B was competitive. He put up a 190 or whatever. He would've beaten teams other than Ticket.
And he got a DNP by rolling the dice on a guy who had missed three games in his previous five instead of going to the less sexy guy on his bench who, in fact, would have gotten him the win. Meanwhile, in the same match period, another team goes short-handed and wins, not for the first time this season.
But I don't think I would have felt right about Ryan winning that match even if his DNP hadn't involved a questionable choice. Tom's guys all showed up; Ryan's didn't. Let it go. Your squad is solid. There are 40 matches. And the DNPs will catch up to other guys, too.
Hey, I admit I can be a little change-averse at times. But my vote isn't about not evolving, it's about using whatever system is the least problematic and the most fair to the most people. Whether it's brand new or as old as dirt doesn't concern me.
I officially vote for no change at this time.
E Team says:
Oh, and by the way, I think that Two Tries thing, going out of the match period in both directions for scores, is an utter disaster waiting to happen.
Unequal distribution of games within match periods, guys maneuvering to get numbers from previous matches that are already known, forcing teams to wait for their opponents to take a free shot when everything else is in.
Yuck, I don't want to be anywhere near that.
Invaders truly believe Eric is wrong about the DNP issue and I think last year with the tight schedule after the lockout proves what I'm saying about all NBA performers playing hurt and the epidemic of DNPs the lack of off days causes-we can go back and forth on each DNP that happened thus far this year but that's a rather small sample size and I'd maintain in the aggregate DNPs can happen anytime..I've already with Dave and Tom come to accept we can't go backward looking for scores(I never originally favored that) but looking forward even if it's to the next match period limited to one game seems to solve the issue of unfair security knowing you're covered going into a match w/an iffy player-I certainly agree we're middle aged and may have dorky tendencies but the whole reason this is fun is because we all love NBA basketball so in fact we really are the NBA and I'd suggest all fantasy leagues are(a microcosm if you like)I think you're too hung up on this drafting durable guys thing as opposed to getting the best players for an entire season and because DNPs have always been a factor in winning and losing in the past given the present format-I'm not suggesting we junk the 40 match format just utilize the 42 unused games in the relatively few instances when it can address the issue that is bothering the league membership that there is a problem with guys not playing-you keeping saying how would a certain guy feel if he lost to another guy because his DNP got another chance well how about the guy with the DNP?you're dealing with a majority of guys that come with experience in a variety of fantasy leagues from weekly lock(the worst)to this dual matches per week concept to the daily league which is true replication-most of us compete in these daily leagues which certainly affect the way we see this as much as you limit your vision to what has always happened in this league-as far as favoring no change that certainly can be what we vote on against the 2nd chance or German idea if you want it appears you and Wingos are for the status quo now
E Teams says:
Mark, you're right on the money about one thing: Your experience of "true replication" in daily leagues affects they way you see stuff.
This is not a daily league.
And I'm not "hung up" on drafting durable guys. It's what we do. And we don't have 42 "unused" matches; we use them to determine who we're going to play when it counts.
You refer to the DNP as "bothering league members?"
Mark, it'a a subject of interest for most of us. It is an obsession for Dave and Ryan. And the worst part is that they've got you - a guy who wasn't even especially concerned about the "issue" - doing their bidding.
You say we're supposed to empathize with the guys who get DNPs from DeMarcus Cousins and Dwayne Wade and Tyreke Evans. I don't. And I don't think others do either. We've seen them. We know what their tendencies are.
I have no objection to revisiting this discussion at some point. Remember, I'm short one, possibly two championships because of DNPs. But I think we're high-centered right now, and it's drawing attention away from what could be a pretty entertaining season.
We've looked at some possible approaches; I think we were right to do so. But none of them is generating wide support. You can call that a failure if you want, or maybe it's just democracy in action.
I've got some other stuff to do. Keep at it if you like. I'm out.
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